Would you be recognizing the soul as distinct from the spirit—man being a dichotomy or trichotomy?

This text is from a transcript of a talk by David Gooding, entitled ‘Key New Testament Themes’ (1996).

Well I do observe this: that the New Testament speaks of salvation in all three respects. It talks about the salvation of our body: 'For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed' (Romans 13:11)—the salvation of our body when the Lord comes. It talks about the salvation of the soul. In 1 Corinthians 5:5, it talks about the salvation of the spirit: 'You are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.' So Scripture talks of salvation of body and of soul and of spirit. Presumably there are differences. We can think of the body in that sense as separate from, say, the soul or the spirit, whichever way you put it. Peter will tell you, 'I'm about to put off this tabernacle, this tent' (2 Peter 1:14).

Now in common parlance where Christians often talk about, 'his soul departed,' or, 'his spirit went to be with the Lord', people sometimes get a little bit worried. 'Which bit of me is going to be with the Lord when I die?' I take comfort in the way that the New Testament speaks. The writers don't say, 'My soul will be with the Lord,' or, 'My spirit will go to be with the Lord,' so much as they say, 'I will go.' Our Lord said to the dying thief, 'Today you will be with me in Paradise' (Luke 23:43). Paul says, 'My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better' (Philippians 1:23). I will be with Christ. That's how the New Testament normally speaks.

I take it, however, we can exist outside the body. You say, 'Do you hold the spirit to be separate from the soul?' I would come back with another question. Are these separate entities, or are they two different aspects? Some have made a neat division and said with the body we're earth conscious, with the soul we're self-conscious and with the spirit we're God-conscious. Well that may be true. What I want to say is, are soul and spirit separate entities, or are they different aspects of the person, importantly different aspects or different components of the person, or however you put it? I'm not aware myself that Scripture discusses it in any great detail.

Are soul and spirit the same?

Some theologians have tried to say that soul and spirit are the same and they deny that there is such a thing as a soul independently of the spirit and body and, therefore, some of them go on to say the doctrine of what they call 'soul sleep': that when we die, we are then unconscious until the Lord comes and raises us from the dead, and they wouldn't agree that you are present with the Lord when you die. They talk about the soul being asleep, so to speak.

I myself would (1) confess ignorance, but (2) prefer to keep to what Scripture actually says. I do notice that while the Scripture talks of salvation in respect of the body, soul and spirit, normally in Scripture when these topics come up, it deals with two things—spirit and flesh, or body and soul. Those are the very frequent opposites in Scripture. Spirit and flesh, they are opposites in one sense. Soul and body can be opposites, and normally it talks in pairs rather than in triplets. I think, therefore, in these things, we're perhaps wise to keep to the Bible's phraseology. If we develop a system on it, a sort of biblical psychology, we must be careful not to let our system go against any positive statement of Scripture. Look at Hebrews 4:12, where the word of God is said to be so sharp and powerful that it can discern, even to the division of soul and spirit. That must be a very difficult thing to do, if it takes something so sharp as the living word of God to do it.

What about 1 Thessalonians 5:23: 'may your whole spirit and soul and body'?

Yes, it talks of the three. That is right. As I say, salvation is talked of in all three, so yes, I do believe in all three. I'm not a dualist in that sense.

Does it really matter if we are a tripartite or dichotomy?

I imagine that there are practical things involved here. When our Lord is talking to the woman at the well he said, 'God is spirit'. Not, 'God is a spirit', but 'God is spirit'. He didn't say, 'God is soul', he said 'God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth' (John 4:24). That's what leads some people to say, 'It's by the spirit that we understand God. Who knows the things of man, save the spirit of a man which is in him. Even so, none knows the things of God, save the Spirit of God' (1 Corinthians 2:11, own trans.). It is at the spiritual level therefore that we know God, so you can say, yes, that is important. I have the notion that in the Old Testament, God does sometimes refer to himself as, 'My soul is weary with you' (Psalm 119:28, own trans.), which is an interesting thing. If that is a part of the divine make-up, does God, who is spirit, have a soul as well? He doesn't have a body presumably, so we get in deep waters, don't we?

I think, however, it is of practical importance. You have in Greek the adjective psychikos—soulish—and that is a very bad state to be. 'Soulish', not having the spirit. It is important to distinguish between things that are simply soulish and not spiritual. We can sometimes mistake the power of the Holy Spirit and we think it is working people up emotionally, and the worship is very much soul worship and not spiritual. Take, for instance, if I dare say this thing, you can get folks in their devotions, meditating upon a crucifix or a picture of Christ with all the gory wounds, and they can be very moved. One has to be careful that that is a true spiritual reaction and not just a soulish reaction. You can play upon people's souls, their emotions and their sensitivities and whatnot and get them to do all sorts of things. That may not necessarily be spiritual power.

Pagan religion is full of that kind of soulish stuff and the New Testament complains about some that are soulish, not having the spirit. That isn't to say soul is bad of itself, but it can go to the bad and be misused. We are to love the Lord our God with all our souls. God made us with emotions and loves and hates and so forth. Purified, they are to be used for God's glory, but presumably the Holy Spirit and our spirit should be dominant in our make-up.